This meeting was set up by Harry deBruin, chair Webmasters & Lorine McGinnis Schulze, co-chair Webmasters, to address other teams' concerns over access to iigs.org, Style Guide requirements, communication by webmasters, and the webmasters' role.
17 team leaders were issued an invitation and asked to attend themselves or send a rep. Regrets were received by Graham Hart IRC Team Leader, Paula Wiegand Org Chart Team Leader, and Ben Laurie, Standards Team Leader.
In attendance were:
Absent: 12 team leaders and/or reps
Session Start: Thu Jul 10 21:22:58 1997 *** Now talking in #webmasters *** Camilla (camilla@194.205.132.1) has joined #webmasters *** Wildfire sets mode: +o Camilla *** Retrieving #webmasters channel info... *** Wildfire changes topic to "Webmaster and Team Leader Meeting " *** Wildfire sets mode: +t *** Harry (Harry@aismac01.admin.uow.edu.au) has joined #WebMasters *** Wildfire sets mode: +o Harry [Note that pre-meeting chit chat has been edited out] [Wildfire] btw i have the agenda if needed for tonite Harry *** Wildfire is now known as Lorine [Harry] Ok thanks. What the time there Lorine? [Lorine] 9:31 pm [Camilla] Do we wait longer, or start? [Harry] Start [Lorine] someone backup my log? [Harry] Got it. [Camilla] I'm logging from now. [Lorine] merci :-) [Harry] Agenda please Lorine. [Lorine] The agenda is: [Lorine] 1. Webmaster Team mandate [Lorine] 2. Style Guide [Lorine] o Copyright notice [Lorine] o Language translations [Lorine] o Wording of style guide [Lorine] 3. Access to iigs.org - who has it, who needs it, and reasons for [Lorine] restrictions *** Gordon (gfisher@pm10a15.shentel.net) has joined #webmasters [Camilla] hello Gordon [Harry] Hello Gordon. [Camilla] that makes 4 [Gordon] Hello! [Lorine] Hello Gordon! [Gordon] Hi [Lorine] yay gordon! [Lorine] :-) [Gordon] ? [Lorine] only us 3 here :-(( *** Camilla sets mode: +o Gordon [Lorine] glad to see you [Gordon] whassnu? [Harry] Just about to start the meet [Gordon] ohhhh [Lorine] oh, I must change a statement I made [Lorine] Graham told me he likely couldn't be here as did Paula [Lorine] so two people plus Ben of course, did respond - but no one else [Lorine] just to keep the record straight [Harry] We'll put apologies in the summary. [Camilla] Sorry, Ben is asleep.. haven't the heart to wake him. [Lorine] :-) [Lorine] want the agenda again Harry? or wait? [Harry] Lorine, can you post the agenda for Gordon. [Gordon] tks [Lorine] The agenda is: [Lorine] 1. Webmaster Team mandate [Lorine] 2. Style Guide [Lorine] o Copyright notice [Lorine] o Language translations [Lorine] o Wording of style guide [Lorine] 3. Access to iigs.org - who has it, who needs it, and reasons for [Lorine] restrictions [Harry] We'll wait. [Lorine] we can also add the part about third level access if you wish. [Lorine] I spoke to Ben again today and have more news on that [Harry] Can we cover that in item 3. [Lorine] yes [Harry] We right to start? [Camilla] yes [Gordon] yes [Lorine] camilla - are you rep for PR here? [Harry] Onto item 1: Webmaster Team mandate [Lorine] sorry just need it for summary [Harry] Lorine do you have the summary from last meet handy [Camilla] I guess so.. but I prob. have some unofficial view re Global Village [Lorine] one sec [Lorine] I can't flood so it will come in bits [Lorine] Sunday July 6 Webmaster Meeting [Lorine] In attendance: [Lorine] Harry DeBruin, chair [Lorine] Lorine McGinnis Schulze,co-chair [Lorine] Holly Fee-Timm [Lorine] Cliff Feavish [Lorine] Joe Reynolds [Lorine] Tom Sluter [Lorine] Ben Laurie [Lorine] Wally Garchow [Lorine] The agenda was: [Lorine] 1. Discussion and clarification of Webmaster Team mandate [Lorine] 2. Style Guide: changes and/or clarifications needed? [Lorine] o Copyright notice - discussion & resolution [Lorine] o Language translations - clarification [Lorine] o Wording of style guide - revisions/clarification and a resolution [Lorine] 3. Access to iigs.org - who has it, who needs it, and reasons for [Lorine] restrictions [Lorine] 1. Discussion and clarification of Webmaster Team mandate [Lorine] o Webmaster Liasons must contact team leader of team they are assigned to and inform [Lorine] the leader they are the liason. [Lorine] o Liasons to work only with team leader or a rep appointed by team leader [Lorine] o Liasons might find it helpful to join the list of the team they are working with [Lorine] o Liasons to request that team leaders carbon to webmaster liason on all relevant topics [Lorine] o The liaison is avaiable to design/construct pages and make suggestions to the team. [Lorine] o Joe to put a reminder on the Liason pages [Lorine] o All webmaster meetings to b [Lorine] o All webmaster meetings to be logged by two participants [Lorine] o To be on the webmaster team list a member must be actively working on a project or have completed one [Lorine] o All webmaster volunteers must be on the webmaster mail list [Lorine] o Webmasters/SysAdmins may have to, in an emergency, make structural changes to the website for operational or security reasons, at short notice, and therefore must, when necessary,edit links/includes in pages on behalf of the page owner. The page owner will be contacted as soon as possible after changes are made. We need to have, in every page, the contact for such [Lorine] Let's just do this part first, ok harry? [Harry] OK. [Lorine] i'll put up the summary of 2 and 3 when we get to them [Harry] First question, does anyone have objection to any of the points in the summary. [Harry] This will become part of the webmasters mandate and all teams will be made aware of this. [Camilla] Do you want comments? [Harry] comments and/or objections. [Camilla] sorry.. not scrolled [Camilla] just a small point.. if the team leader knows that the liaison is on the team list, no need to carbn to them. [Harry] We've given the option of cc'ing or joining the team list. [Camilla] ok [Harry] But the team leader needs to be aware if the liaison is not on the Team List. [Gordon] Excuse me what is Team List? [Harry] IIGS-Translators-L etc. [Camilla] This may get harder to deal with if we have any non English teams.. e.g. global village country team.. does the country team go through the main GV team before the webmasters [Gordon] ok [Lorine] not sure what you mean Camilla? [Harry] I had hoped so. How else will GV know which countries are represented. [Lorine] oh I understand now [Camilla] e.g. An Italian rep. volunteers.. he/she creates a page... in Italian... how do we deal with it? [Lorine] can we visualize it in levels? Each team lets webmasters know what's going on. Each team can have their own "sub teams' [Lorine] not less important, just meaning they report to the main team [Camilla] ok.. so webmasters liaise with main level teams [Lorine] i think that works best myself [Harry] Yes. [Camilla] ok.. there may be problems as GV gets bigger, but we'll deal with that, then [Harry] Later, when more countries come online, we might consider one webmaster per continent. [Camilla] right [Harry] Anything else on item 1. [Camilla] A small aside. Who is the liaison for PR? [Lorine] I am [Lorine] :-) [Camilla] LOL [Lorine] sheessh... [Lorine] :-) [Camilla] ahh.. that'll be easy then [Lorine] :-) [Harry] Current liaisons can be found at: http://www.iigs.org/webmasters/liaisons.htm [Camilla] Are we on item 2 now? [Lorine] I will put in the summary "no changes to mandate"? plus the new [Harry] OK Lorine. [Lorine] item brought up by Camilla ok [Lorine] ok [Lorine] one sec for #2 [Harry] Onto Item 2: [Lorine] 2. Style Guide: changes and/or clarifications needed? [Lorine] o Copyright notice - discussion & resolution [Lorine] Discussion on whether individual teams can place Copyright xxx Team instead of Copyright IIGS on their IIGS pages. [Lorine] O Harry, Tom, Lorine, Cliff, Joe vote in favour of IIGS copyright over Team copyright [Lorine] O Wally votes Team copyright [Lorine] O Holly abstains [Lorine] Resolution: Pages must carry an IIGS copyright notice. [Lorine] end of #2 [Harry] comment/objections. [Camilla] As PR I vote for IIGS copyright [Harry] Other problems with the Style Guide [Gordon] what's at issue in copyright? [Harry] Ownership of the pages. [Gordon] oh [Lorine] some teams wanted to have the team name on instead of IIGS [Gordon] why? [Lorine] they felt the pages were written by them and so belonged to them [Camilla] personally I think that's ok.. I know that Paula has a problem.. whe thinks that those that create them should be able to have copyright [Gordon] i c [Lorine] but they are for the org. so we felt they bleong to the org [Gordon] right [Camilla] I think maintained by the team, copyright IIGS is fine [Harry] But aren't all teams part of IIGS. [Lorine] yes [Harry] Yes [Camilla] Without those that object being here, there isn't must to say [Camilla] oops much [Lorine] guess that's a reason to show up or send a rep in one's place [Lorine] :-) [Camilla] I think ben would vote for IIGS [Lorine] as you can see I haven't much empathy for those who complain and gripe and then don't come out to discuss/vote [Harry] IF there are no objections we'll proceed to the next item [Lorine] that doesn't inlcude ben of coures! [Camilla] :-) [Lorine] one sec for next [Camilla] There is another point [Harry] Yes [Camilla] surely if we were to have to protect the copyright.. having IIGS would be easier [Harry] Yes, I agree. [Lorine] i agree [Lorine] are you guys there? I'm getting dead air [Gordon] here [Lorine] :-) [Camilla] next point? [Harry] Onto the next item [Lorine] o Language translations - clarification [Lorine] Language Bar: [Lorine] o Languages are part of our international aspect as decided on previously by the IIGS membership [Lorine] o If a page is never going to be translated, eg. logs of meetings, then the language bar may be left off [Lorine] o Language Bar usage/benefits to be explained in Style Guide, i.e., The program grabs all current languages from a file and checks which language exist for a page.Then the currently displayed language is bolded so this provides tremendous ease of maintainance for whoever is maintaining the pages. It means any new translations upload [Lorine] end [Camilla] I think this is a good idea.. the thought of changing all those pages when a new language emerges :-( [Lorine] any new translations uploaded are automatically linked without messing about in the codes. [Lorine] wasn't quite the end, sorry [Lorine] :-) [Harry] I know, before we had the program, I had to changes 4 pages to add a new language page. [Lorine] Harry's program works great. [Gordon] congrats [Lorine] it was a pain to have to change every single one previously!! [Harry] thanks :-)) [Harry] This point was just informational (additions to style guide)... [Camilla] The only problem, is that if you develop a page off Rootsweb you can't see it in it's glory..but IMO a minor point [Harry] Onto the next. [Lorine] o Wording of style guide - revisions/clarification and a resolution [Lorine] Discussion and vote for leaving in the wording "Official IIGS document" [Lorine] yes votes: Tom, Lorine, Cliff, Joe, Harry, Holly [Lorine] Wally votes for Level one and two as being official. [Lorine] Resolution: Style Guide remains as is with an explanation of "Official IIGS Document" [Lorine] did you want the next one too Harry? [Harry] Not yet. Let's handle this one. [Camilla] I don;t see any problem with this. The guidelines don;t dictate the content, just bits of the style [Harry] Camilla, will the page be server from another server. RE: Languages. [Camilla] harry, not sure I understand [Harry] You talked about developing pages off Rootsweb. [Camilla] oh.. I mean if I write a page here... and test it and want to show it to my team.. we can't see it properly [Lorine] camilla [Camilla] 'cos the language and links bit are missing [Lorine] you can do it by letting us u/l it to iigs.org [Lorine] and not linking it [Lorine] to any page there [Lorine] your team is the only one who sees it [Harry] Or place it in the _test directory. [Lorine] yes [Camilla] Yes, but then it's not on my local machine.. I have to pay, potentially each time I upload it. [Lorine] you have to pay? [Camilla] Not me personally, but to ftp it from England costs a phone call [Lorine] Camilla, just u/l it to your site, and one of us will grab it and put it up on the iigs.org one [Harry] What if you hardcode a language bar [Lorine] free [Lorine] :-) [Lorine] then send you the URL to preview it [Camilla] could do.. have to remember to remove it.. or someone does.. [Harry] Just for visual effect. [Camilla] yes.. but e.g. the other night, Paula and I were working on GV pages.. which are on my machine under devel. I made 4 or 5 changes withing half an hour.. to try things out [Lorine] ah,,,, I see [Camilla] updating is not such a problem.. but a new area which needs heavy work is. [Lorine] can we give Camilla the language program to u/l at her site so her pages can be viewed? [Camilla] even if I had a log in on Rootsweb, this doesn't alter the potential cost for people that pay for access by the min. [Harry] I think it's probably best to hardcode a language bar for visual effect while testing, and then replace it with the actual code before uploading. [Camilla] Lorine.. at some stage there is a plan for us to mirror the IIGS site here.. so I guess we'd need it then.. Ben would know.. I'm not the techy [Harry] For the program to work, you'll need Server Side Includes turned on and access to the CGI-BIN directory. [Camilla] OK.. can the webmasters run a routine to check and correct for this [Camilla] I have total access to my machine... Ben is the system admin. and noone else uses it [Harry] Just get Ben to pull the program from the server. [Camilla] ok. [Camilla] thanks [Lorine] so will Camilla have the language bar program? [Camilla] That sorts me out.. what about other people? [Lorine] sorry I'm trying to write a summaryand stay awake at the same time :-) [Harry] The program can be made available on request if they have access to the above mentioned items. [Camilla] Fine. :-) [Camilla] Is this an IIGS utility, authored by Harry de Bruin? [Camilla] :-) [Harry] Yes, there are no copyright. It's PD as far as I'm concerned. [Harry] back in 5 [Gordon] ditto [Lorine] :-) [Camilla] Lorine is there much more (yawn) [Lorine] Camilla you must be beat. I'm exhausted [Lorine] almost done! [Camilla] :-) [Lorine] one more point [Camilla] great [Camilla] it's 3:30 here [Lorine] grooooaaaaan... [Lorine] and here I am whining.... [Lorine] :-( [Lorine] it is past my bedtime tho [Camilla] no.. late is late.. wherever [Gordon] back [Lorine] I think I'll just pop the next part up now [Camilla] hi [Lorine] 3. Access to iigs.org - who has it, who needs it, and reasons for restrictions [Lorine] The following people have access to iigs.org [Lorine] Marsha Wilcox [Lorine] Wally Garchow [Lorine] Lorine Schulze [Lorine] Joanne Rabun [Lorine] Joe Reynolds [Lorine] Daryl Lytton - University [Lorine] Harry DeBruin [Lorine] Who needs it? [Lorine] Access should be on a need to have basis. Codes to be handed out by one person only. [Lorine] ONLY Harry with Lorine as backup should give out permissions and passwords. Decisions are trusted [Lorine] on who should have access and why. Only webmasters need it, and it should be restricted in the [Lorine] interests of security. Anyone with access must be on the webmasters' team and mailing list. [Lorine] Reasons for restrictions; [Lorine] To be explained to individuals requesting access. Direct our Liasion Team Leader to Harry when [Lorine] permission is asked for. [Lorine] and one extra point that Ben and I have been discussing will be added [Harry] I'm back. [Lorine] Harry, i posted the next points [Camilla] Sounds fine to me. Typically, it would be me who messed things up :-) [Lorine] :-) [Harry] Noticed. :-) [Lorine] Camilla I'm the one who set you to IGNORE, remember? [g] [Camilla] (G) [Lorine] and couldnt' get you off! [Harry] Lorine, you want to post discussion with Ben. [Camilla] Anyway, I don't see that I need access. There is more to it than just uploading a file [Lorine] yes. Basically Ben has said he is pretty confident he can create a subdirectory [Lorine] that will be considered third level [Lorine] and this will be open to team leaders to u/l third level pages [Lorine] we webmasters [Lorine] willl still have restricted access to levels one and two [Gordon] what are these levels? [Camilla] so you make the links from level 2 to level 3? [Lorine] yes [Camilla] you=webmasters [Lorine] webmasters will make the links from 2 to 3 [Lorine] and team leaders can u/l 3 to their level 3 directory - a common one [Lorine] Ben has not been able to try this out yet but he will use Global Village [Harry] Inside this 3rd-level directory we would create directories for each of the teams? [Lorine] as the test ground [Lorine] I hesitate to say Harry as I don't think Ben has worked that out. it would be easier to NOT create [Harry] IIGS Home page and Team Home pages. [Lorine] those extra subdirectories I think [Lorine] just one common one [Harry] Could be problems with that. Overwriting files etc. [Lorine] Ben can't work on it til Brian sends the new password as the root password was changed. [Lorine] yes true [Harry] I was thinking along these lines.... [Gordon] do the levels refer to a hierarchy of directories? [Harry] Create directories for each of the teams with access given to the team leader.... [Harry] Each team leader would have a seperate username/password. [Camilla] Harry and lorine, cld you just define the levels for us, please [Lorine] Right now, Gordon we have [Lorine] IIGS main page on main IIGS directory [Harry] That way they only have access to their team's pages. [Lorine] off that comes each teams directories with their home page uploaded there [Lorine] those are the first two levels [Gordon] and the thirs? [Gordon] third? [Lorine] if we create a third level and team leaders can't go above it to the first 2 dir. then access is [Camilla] level 3 will be the level with the most frequent changes [Lorine] restricted but teams can have some control over their extra pages [Lorine] yes Camilla I think it will [Gordon] ok thanks [Lorine] and that will also help ease our load as webmasters [Harry] Level 3 are things like the Style Guide. etc. [Lorine] sort of links from the team's first page [Lorine] Harry I understand waht you're suggesting [Lorine] maybe we should let Ben get something going and see what he comes up with? [Harry] It'll take a bit more to set up but is more secure. [Lorine] in terms of overwriting another person's files [Lorine] ? [Harry] Yes. [Camilla] The chance of people using the same file names is probably quite high [Lorine] not sure tho about that many passwords floating around? [Lorine] what about one password to the Level 3 dir. and then subdirs for each team? [Camilla] they will only be level 3 p/wds [Lorine] yes, true Camilla [Lorine] we should approach Ben when he has had his beauty sleep [Lorine] :-) [Harry] That will still allow teams into each others directories. [Camilla] I think teams would prefer to be safe from each other :-) [Lorine] I was just assuming that no one would mistake their dir. for another... [Lorine] :-) [Lorine] fine by me either way :-) [Lorine] So optimum is separate passwords and sep. dir [Harry] I thinks it better to be safge than sorry. [Lorine] if Ben can/will do it, right? [Harry] safe.. [Lorine] it's always good to be safge too... [Camilla] :-) [Harry] lol [Gordon] zaftig [Camilla] If that's it.. I really must go to bed * Lorine hands Camilla her teddy and pink flannel pjs.... [Harry] Anything else on the agenda. [Lorine] oops teddy BEAR! [Gordon] but it's only 3 am where you are Camilla [Camilla] thank you.. someone like to carry me upstairs too ? [Gordon] about [Camilla] nope 3.45 [Gordon] whoops [Lorine] might as well stay up now and make breaky [Camilla] goodnight [Lorine] nite C [Gordon] gn [Harry] night. *** Camilla (camilla@194.205.132.1) has left #webmasters [Lorine] i think that was it harry [Harry] Shall we close the meeting. [Lorine] unless Gordon has somethign? [Gordon] very instructive [Lorine] thanks for coming out Gordon [Gordon] thanks for letting me in [Lorine] :-) * Lorine needs to leave for a for a nice long nap.... [Harry] Gordon, need to talk, if you can stay? [Gordon] it's very strange but about 50 years ago I used to have conversations like this by radioteletype [Lorine] I;ll say my goodbyes [Gordon] go ahead Harry [Harry] night Lorine. [Lorine] nn [Gordon] gn Lorine Session Close: Thu Jul 10 22:51:02 1997